Live Updates: Appearing Before Lawmakers, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Defends His Stance on Vaccines
"Mr. Kennedy, the scion of a Democratic dynasty who became the country’s most prominent vaccine skeptic, told the Senate Committee on Finance that he is not anti-vaccine, despite past statements.
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Robert F. Kennedy Jr., whose antipathy toward vaccines has raised alarms among health experts and helped him build a large national following, told senators on Wednesday that he is not “anti-vaccine” and had been mistakenly labeled that way in news reports, despite years of comments raising suspicions about the safety of inoculations.
“I am pro-safety,” Mr. Kennedy, President Trump’s nominee for health secretary, said before being interrupted by a protester in the audience who shouted, “He lies!”
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse’s meandering remarks to Kennedy earlier weren’t as aggressive as those of his Democratic colleagues. He gave a big challenge on vaccine safety followed by a long, granular complaint about Rhode Island CMS payments. The exchange had a personal background: The two men were good friends in law school. In 1998, the Providence Journal reported that the two hunted and hiked together while at the University of Virginia. The paper reported, “Kennedy half-kiddingly says he failed his first bar exam because Whitehouse persuaded him to take a four-day whitewater rafting trip.”
Whitehouse has come under scrutiny in Rhode Island, with some speculating he may break with the Democratic Party to support Kennedy. Whitehouse has not said how he will vote. He told reporters, “I can ensure everyone that I will vote in the way that’s best for Rhode Island.”
Senator Maggie Hassan, Democrat of New Hampshire, returned to the topic of vaccines, invoking her grandfather, a pediatrician, before drilling down on Kennedy’s changing position on abortion. “You have clearly stated in the past that bodily autonomy is one of your core values. The question is, do you stand for that value or not? When was it that you decided to sell out the values you’ve had your whole life in order to be given power by President Trump?”
In his opening statement at his confirmation hearing on Wednesday, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. invoked “MAHA” and cited President Trump’s pledge “to make all of our people healthy again.”
But the word “again” presumes a time in the country’s past when Americans were in better health. Was there ever really a time when America was healthier?
Senator Steve Daines, Republican of Montana, brought up the abortion pill mifepristone. He echoes claims by abortion opponents who are suing the F.D.A. to roll back regulations that greatly expanded access to the drug. He asks Kennedy what he will do about mifepristone. Kennedy hedges, saying ” President Trump has asked me to study the safety of mifepristone. He has not yet taken a stand on how to regulate it. Whatever he does, I will implement those policies.”
In a tense exchange with Senator Bill Cassidy, a Republican from Louisiana, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. displayed a surprising lack of familiarity with Medicare and Medicaid, the government programs responsible for covering more than 150 million Americans.
At times, Mr. Kennedy seemed to confuse the two programs. Medicare is a federal program that provides coverage to older and disabled Americans, while Medicaid is a state-federal program that covers low-income people.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, delivered a pointed instruction. Whitehouse, whose state recently had a measles outbreak, asked Kennedy to promise to “never say vaccines aren’t medically safe when they in fact are,” and making it “indisputably clear” that he supports childhood vaccine mandates. Kennedy has repeatedly said he is for vaccines but against mandates, but public health experts say mandatory vaccination is crucial to preventing outbreaks. “Frankly, you frighten people,” Whitehouse said.
Senators have brought up measles several times already this morning, citing Kennedy’s statements on measles vaccines. Measles cases have been rising in the United States, in part because of falling vaccination rates. By March 2024, the U.S. had seen more measles cases that year than in the entirety of 2023. There were 16 outbreaks reported in 2024.
Kennedy gives his first full statement on abortion in response to a question from Senator Jim Lankford of Oklahoma. He says: “I agree with President Trump that every abortion is a tragedy. I agree with him we cannot be a moral nation if we have 1.2 million abortions a year. I agree with him that the states should control abortion. President Trump has told me that he wants to end late-term abortions. He wants to protect conscience exemptions.” Kennedy said he will follow President Trump’s policy positions on abortion.
HHS has the ability to influence policy on abortion and reproductive health in several ways, including the funding of programs on sexual education and family planning. In an example of one such policy, Kennedy has reportedly told conservative senators that he would block funding under the Title X Family Planning Program for clinics that discuss abortion with patients (such funding is already withheld from clinics that provide abortion).
Senator Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia, questioned Kennedy after the tough sequence with Cassidy. Warner raised a fund-raising email that came Monday night from Kennedy’s campaign, praising President Trump’s “freeze” on spending and soliciting contributions to relieve $2 million in debt leftover from the campaign, money owed to Kennedy’s private security. Kennedy responds to Warner that he doesn’t think his campaign still exists. But it does, and it can’t close up shop until that debt is paid off.
Senator Cassidy, a critical Republican vote for Kennedy to secure in his confirmation battle, asked his questions in a way that appeared designed to test Kennedy’s knowledge of the massive health insurance programs he’d oversee as health secretary. As Kennedy stumbled through his responses, Cassidy looked skeptical.
Kennedy does not seem to have a mastery of Medicare and Medicaid as he is questioned by Senator Bill Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican. These issues are not his strong suit. Presumably he has had to brush up for the hearing. He suggests “more people would rather be on Medicare Advantage” but can’t afford it because it's more expensive. Medicare Advantage is generally less expensive.
Kennedy stumbled over his facts when Cassidy pushed him to describe his ideas about Medicaid reform. He describes the program as being fully federally funded. Spending on Medicaid is actually split between the states and the federal government. Kennedy also described the premiums and deductibles as being too high when, except in very rare cases, Medicaid enrollees do not pay either of those types of fees.
Senator Michael Bennet, Democrat of Colorado, aggressively challenged Kennedy on some of his more outrageous statements, including his assertions that Covid-19 was a genetically engineered bioweapon that targets Black people and spares Chinese and Ashkenazi Jews, and that Lyme Disease was an engineered bioweapon. A contentious exchange ensues. “I probably did say that,” Kennedy said about Lyme Disease. Kennedy tries to push back on the Covid-19 assertion, telling Bennet that he didn’t say the virus was intentionally created.
Senator Bennet also raised Kennedy’s previous support for abortion rights, repeating something he said on a podcast: “I wouldn’t leave abortion to the states. My belief is we should leave it to the woman. We shouldn’t have the government involved, even if it’s full term.” Kennedy, who as a Trump nominee is trying to temper his previous statements supporting abortion rights, started to answer, saying, “I believe every abortion is a tragedy.”
In September 1983, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. fell ill on a flight to Rapid City, S.D. The pilot radioed ahead for medics. By dint of his famous name, Mr. Kennedy, then 29 and fresh out of law school, was taken to a V.I.P. room at the airport, where investigators found heroin in his luggage.
By his own account, Mr. Kennedy, who later pleaded guilty to a felony charge of possessing heroin, had become addicted to the drug in his teens, as he struggled to cope with the assassination of his father. Two days after the airplane episode, he checked himself into a New Jersey drug treatment center. He says he has been sober ever since.
Senator Cornyn raises PEPFAR, George W. Bush’s signature program to bring AIDS drugs overseas. He calls PEPFAR “one of the most successful public health programs in the world.” But Trump has put a hold on PEPFAR. Cornyn wants to know Kennedy’s position. “I absolutely support PEPFAR,” Kennedy says, and vows to work with Cornyn to strengthen the program.
Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, raises the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which is under the purview of H.H.S. and early in the Biden administration lost track of hundreds of migrant children. Kennedy says Trump has “personally spoken to me” about locating the dislocated children. He asserts that many have been subjected to sex-trafficking and childhood slavery, adding that it is “a blight on America’s moral authority.”
Senator Grassley asked Kennedy whether he supported accountability for pharmacy benefit managers — the big companies that are responsible for handling drug plans for employers and governments. It’s been unclear where Kennedy stands, but he responds by saying he supports reform.
After Senator Wyden’s fiery clash with Kennedy, Senator Chuck Grassley, Republican of Iowa, calmly plodded through issues of concern to him, including prescription drug pricing, dietary guidelines, and agriculture. Grassley, as a farm state senator, is deeply concerned about Kennedy’s criticism of the agriculture industry, and warned Kennedy to leave those matters to the Department of Agriculture.
Senator Wyden briefly noted that Kennedy made efforts to take vaccines away from people. We previously reported on a petition he sent to the F.D.A. to remove all Covid vaccines for all age groups during a deadly phase of the pandemic.
Kennedy and Senator Wyden are tangling about the measles outbreak in Samoa. Our colleague Elizabeth Williamson has written about that issue.
Senator Wyden is aggressive with his opening question, raising past comments by Kennedy including saying “no vaccine is safe and effective” and another comment in which he said he would “do anything” to go back in time and not vaccinate his children. “Are you lying to Congress today when you say you are pro-vaccine?” Wyden asked. Kennedy says his statement on safety and effectiveness was taken out of context, saying he intended to note that all vaccines like all drugs have side effects. He accused Wyden of being “dishonest.”
“Your testimony today under oath, you denied that you were anti-vaccine. But during a podcast interview in July of 2023, you said, quote, ‘No vaccine is safe and effective.’ In your testimony today, in order to prove your not anti-vax, you note that all your kids are vaccinated. But in a podcast in 2020, you said, and I quote, ‘You would do anything, pay anything to go back in time and not vaccinate your kids.’ Mr. Kennedy, all of these things cannot be true. So are you lying to Congress today when you say you are pro-vaccine or did you lie on all those podcasts? We have all of this on tape, by the way.” “Yeah Senator, as you know, because it’s been repeatedly debunked, that statement that I made on the Lex Fridman podcast was a fragment of the statement. He asked me — and anybody who actually goes and looks at that podcast will see this — he asked me, are there vaccines that are safe and effective. And I said to him, some of the live virus vaccines are. And I said, there are no vaccines that are safe and effective. And I was going to continue — for every person, every medicine has people who are sensitive to them, including vaccines.”
One line of questioning that senators might pursue are the legal payments that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. received in recent years for consulting and referring clients to Wisner Baum, a Los Angeles personal injury law firm.
Public records show that this business arrangement has been worth about $2.5 million since 2022 — with the potential for more to come.
Spasmodic dysphonia is a neurological condition that causes certain muscles in the “voice box,” or larynx, to spasm, often making the voice sound raspy, strained or breathy.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. started developing symptoms of the condition in 1996, when he was making most of his income from speaking engagements. He said he went from being able to speak to “large halls without any amplification” to having a chronic vocal tremor.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., President Trump’s nominee for health secretary, has amassed a significant national following with his suspicions of vaccines, weight-loss drugs and the American diet.
But Mr. Kennedy has said little about some of the issues at the core of the department he seeks to lead, such as the health insurance programs that make up roughly a quarter of the federal budget."
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